In her diary You sing in me Your name Carine Philipse describes the mystical experience she had ten years ago, and the impact this feeling had upon her life. “Dying for me is totally emerging in God as a drop of water in the sea.” By Jurgen Tiekstra.
Interview in Friesch Dagblad [daily newspaper], march 1st 2014, by Jurgen Tiekstra
When Carine Philipse (1950) goes to sleep, she puts an icon with the image of Jesus next to her in bed. Before she closes her eyes, she kisses him. And if she fails to fall asleep, she touches his face. An icon as bed partner? It is perfectly logical for someone who ten years ago had a deep mystical experience, of which her last year published diary You sing in me Your name is the result.
It’s Wednesday, January 1st 2003. Carine Philipse, who has been for the most of her life a hospital chaplain, is writing at the kitchen table a sermon on Jesus’ baptism in the Jordan. Suddenly she is overwhelmed by an all encompassing experience of ‘unity with God’, “a mystical sensation that lasts for hours and makes her burst into tears. In her diary she makes notes that are written in full ecstasy and have the form of mystical love poetry: O take me / take me total / leave nothing / over of me. / Make everything in to You. / Let me only / see You / hear You, / because You are everything / and everything is You. “
Philipse has always been a spiritual person. Forty years ago, as a student of theology at Leiden, she lived the words of the ruling church father Augustine: “God is closer to me than I could be near myself.” In this she is the complete opposite of her brother Herman Philipse, professor of philosophy at Utrecht, who ironically is the most zealous advocate of atheism in the Netherlands. In 1995 he wrote the Atheist Manifesto and in 2012 he published the book God in the Age of Science? in which he challenged the reasonableness of faith. Experiences of God as his sister has he finds totally unbelievable.
Philipse says she often does written interviews because a personal interview is very tiring. In recent years she has been chronically ill, partly because of severe neck pain. She quit her job at the hospital and barely leaves her house, plagued by headaches and exhaustion. Her mystical diary is her life’s work now. She feels called to tell what she has been through, to connect other people “with God’s Love.”
That you had that mystical experience on January 1 2003, was that the result of a lifetime of prayer and focus on God?
“From the time I was a child, I was strongly religious oriented. When I was little, I was fascinated by angels and a little later by the saints. I did not get this from home. We were Arminian and at our home we did not pray. I missed that. When I graduated I accidentally discovered the Jesus Prayer and the Desert Fathers. I began to pray and right away experienced a connection with God. That was very joyful. But I didn’t saw this as something special. I thought everyone would have this. I divorced in 2002. That was a big shock to me. Everything I had tried to keep together fell apart. In that void, in which I could no longer hold on to anything, there was even more room for God. That is when that mystical breakthrough happened to me, for which I was very grateful. I had the feeling: This is what my life is meant for. This is my destiny. I then fully surrendered myself to God and put my life in His hand. That was followed by a powerful mystical process. I wrote down everything as it happened to me: prayers, songs, reflections. “
How would you describe this mystical feeling?
“I experienced everything more and more from out of the unity with God. That has since only increased. I am convinced that we are, in our quintessence, one with God and always have been and always will be. That awareness has become increasingly stronger through the mystical experiences, but I have a feeling that deep inside I have always known that it was so. “
How important has that experience been for you more than then years after?
“In 2003 I immediately realized that these mystical experiences were not meant for me, but as an expression of God’s Love, to flow through me to other people. In my work as a hospital minister I felt the Love of God in me connecting with the love of God in the other, without me standing in between. The mystical experiences have led to this book. I hope this book helps people to contact with the layer within themselfes where they can meet God. Because it’s not about me, but about God’s Love. “
It is your thought that it would do the world good if more people would have this mystical experience of unity with God?
“Yes, because if you live from out of the unity with God you are unable to deliberately deceive or abuse other people. Then you live from your essence, and only then can you truly connect with others. If you live from your ego, you live in separation from your deepest self, God and the other. Then you can see by ignoring others you become focused on your own interests. Unfortunately we too often see that in our society. “
How would you describe God?
“God is essentially indescribable. We can only refer to Him. For me, God is the core of reality. Jesus said, “I and the Father are one.” Jesus is for me a form of God’s Love, walking on earth. I feel with all my being that God is Love. In the Bible there are multiple images of God, but the image of God as Love is strongly present. “
You regularly emphasize that God is love and at the same time repeat that God is ’the basis of everything’. Why would God be love, if you suffer pain and he world is plagued by natural disasters, war and disease?
“I am convinced that God does not send us the events that happen to us, such as disease and natural disasters. And people do hurt each other. God is always present as a source of Love, but people do need to open their hearts and live from out of that Love. “
If so many people are affected by diseases and natural disasters, how can you still insist that God is love and the basis of everything?
“That God is Love, is an experienced reality that you find in all religions and all mystical movements. Natural disasters happen unfortunately, but are not caused by God. When I say that God is the core of reality, I mean the essence, the essence, the deepest layer of all that is. All that is, is in God. We are never separated from Him. Through all circumstances we are in His Love.”
To what extent do you see yourself as a Christian? Because you say you see the same mysticism in all religions.
“I see myself as a religious person. I grew up in a liberal Christian family. Mysticism is the heart of every religion. She transcends the boundaries that people have given religions, all dogmas and manmade images of God. “
Did you grieve that people like your brother, Herman Philipse, don’t share this belief?
“I have great confidence that everyone is safe in God’s hands and that God’s love includes everyone. I believe that in our sould we are all one with God and that no one will be lost. ”
Your brother says regularly that in his opinion, religions and beliefs are based on revelations. And those revelations are not reliable, according to him. The source of your diary is a revelation that you have had. Why would it bereliable? What would you say to your brother?
“Believe takes place on a different layer of experience, and in another field of language than the rational thought my brother speaks of. Faith and science can coexist very well. To me it makes no sense to look at experiences of believe in a rational way. That’s also not how you would look at beauty or love. ”
You consider all religions as equal and you also say that no one will perish by his unbelief. That seems to contradict what is said in Christianity. How come you’ve always staid pastor within the Protestant Church?
“There are many different beliefs within Christianity. I see dogmas as manmade images of what can not be put into words. God can’t be described, we can only refer to Him. Within the PKN (Protestant Church in the Netherlands) there are much more directions. That’s why I feel like home there. Birds with many different colors under one roof, as on Noah’s ark. ”
Nevertheless, how important is Jesus to you, who says: “No one can come to my father except through me”?
“Very important. Jesus is for me the image of God’s Love, “transparent to God.” Other religions are also paths to God. It’s like climbing the same mountain, but on a slightly different road. Love and forgiveness play in all religions a major role. The love that God gives us flows through us to other people. The core of my belief can be found in Paul’s words that nothing can separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. That statement of Paul is the foundation of my life. ”
How do look at death?
“Dying for me is totally emerging in God as a drop of water in the sea.”
You write in your diary on March 26, 2003: “I can not remember ever being so happy.” What caused that happiness?
“That God had put my attention so strongly on him. Experiencing living in unity with God, without effort. He did everything. ”
And is that still true: have you never been happier?
“The unity with God fulfills me totally. Even with my poor health and the pain that I carry. I obviously grief over the fact that I have so much pain. Those feelings I look at with love and understanding. But even with the pain and sadness I feel accepted by God. That’s the basis of my life. ”
I understand that, because of the intensity of the mystical experience, you no longer work as a hospital chaplain. Was it worth it?
“The mystical experiences made me feel more connected to the people I was taking care of. Never did I experience stronger how we stood hand in hand before God, in His Love. With great sadness my I had to give up my job in 2011, because of improper medical treatment my health was seriously damaged. But if that had not happened, I would never had felt so strongly: now I have to do what I have to do in my life. And that was writing this book. So you see how things can suddenly take a change in your life. I see this book as a continuation of my work: to bring people into contact with God’s Love. In my work His love flowed through me. He did the work, not me. So it is the same with this book. It’s not about me, but about God’s love for everyone. ”